Spoiled Children of Divorce

Psychopathic Parents

There are no articles for children on learning how to tell if their parents are psychopaths, but most Children of Divorce know that if their parents get divorced they will inevitably hear one or both parents say that the other parent is a psychopath.  That’s just part of the Divorce Party Chit Chat.  And, of course, one doesn’t need coaching from one’s parents to understand that one’s Stepparents are psychopaths…  And, to be honest, it’s really frightening to be told that you are just like the psychopath….

Anyhoo, another great article from Huffington Post written for spouses to understand exactly what are the DSM qualification for Psychopathology.

I forgot already what the qualities of being a sociopath are.  I think there was something about how they appear normal but have Grandiose attitudes and were bullies as children. They appear normal…..  oh man, it gets so complicated.  And they sound a lot like Bipolar Disorder back in the day when Bipolar Disorder sounded like Bipolar Disorder.

A spouse will be very concerned if he or she suspects that his or her spouse has anti-social tendencies.  Of course the spouse will file for Divorce.  Usually, this has no effect on whether or not the child will go hang out with that spouse for week-ends, or even a month over the Summer.  Or maybe it will.  Maybe the child can no longer visit the ousted parent. I bet psychopaths are better in that regard.  Since they don’t care about anything they will be more likely to not continue with a 10 year custody battle.  Or maybe not.

There’s no advice for children on how to survive those fun week-end visits with Mom or Dad who made everything possible because she or he was a psychopath.  Psychopaths are fun and charming and everyone likes them and generally they are not bossy or aggressive.

So I thought up some questions for 20 years down the line when Canadian Researchers fund some programs to look into this because we all know that Americans couldn’t care less:

How do you get over the low self-esteem which comes from being told that one of your parents is a psychopath?  What are the chances that you can rise above your genetics?  According to the geneticists there is only one physical illness which is determined 100 percent by one’s genetics (it’s the one that Woody Guthrie died from, forget the name).  But, to hear a psychologist talk, mental illness is not as flexible and genetics are the driving force behind all that ails mankind.

How do you find the information about how to not act like a psychopath?  After all, the psychopath doesn’t care that he/she is a psychopath so probably isn’t going to steer you in any sort of direction otherwise.  And, obviously, the parent who claims to be the normal one jumped right into a stupid relationship with the psychopath and will probably do so over and over again so has issues of his/her own.

How do you begin to enjoy the company of Normal people who are so boring, after all?

Should you avoid the psychopathic parent?  Should you hate the psychopathic parent?  How is it possible to love the psychopathic parent?  Do you feel lucky if you don’t look or act like the psychopathic parent?  Do you feel scornful of and superior to your siblings who do?

Should you ask your friends to tell you when you’re acting like a psychopath?  Or will they stop being your friends if they think you or your siblings or your parent is a psychopath?

Should you warn your teachers that you are genetically inclined towards psychopathic behaviors and to keep all sharp objects out of reach of your mean little hands?

What are the statistics that your parents won’t jump right into another marriage right away with a psychopath?  This is cause for great anxiety for a child.

If your psychopathic parent is an addict then will he/she stop being a psychopath in the unlikely events that he/she sobers up?  Or is the addiction just an excuse to hide behind?

How do you deal with being blamed for everything that goes wrong in your psychopath parents’ life?  Or the normal parents’ life for that matter.   Of course, step-parents will blame you for anything and everything because they didn’t marry you, they married your parent and you just came along so shut up and be grateful.

How do you know if only one of your parents is a psychopath?  Maybe the normal parent is actually the true psychopath?

What does it do to your personality and character to have to wonder about this crap over and over again when really you should just be doing chores, doing homework and out playing with your friends and not hiding from parents and worrying about money?

Would you rather have a rich psychopathic parent or a poor, exhausted but normal parent?  Divorced parents don’t really have much time for their kids either way so maybe it doesn’t really matter at all.  Parents have their own lives to live.  They both say they love you more than anything else in the world, isn’t that enough?

Why isn’t anyone protecting you from this shit?

Parental Alienation Syndrome / Custody Fights / Nathan Grieco

This post has grown a life of its own.  Don’t know if I’ll be able to get it under control.

It started out when I picked up a used book called A Kidnapped Mind  by Pamela Richardson.  Haven’t read it yet, but Richardson discusses her custody fight for her son which ultimately led to her son’s suicide.  Richardson discusses how Parental Alienation Syndrome destroyed her son’s life.  The Father had alienated him so that he refused to see his Mother.  Since the boy is dead we can’t hear his side.

Then I somehow got distracted by the story of the man who coined the term “Parental Alienation Syndrome.”  Dr. Richard A. Gardner was a psychiatrist who wrote the first book about Children of Divorce.  He coined the term “Parental Alienation Syndrome” in 1985 and self published a book about it in 1992.  Gardner was divorced twice, had three children a son and two daughters. His astrology chart is really interesting to look at in this regard.

(Astrology stuff:  Gardner’s chart reflects the current huge outer planet t-square that we have been currently going through in his chart.  In the Cardinal Signs, strongly related to relationships on one pole and to family on the other pole.  Uranus, planet of divorce, is conjunct the North Node in Aries (conflict).  This squares an opposition of Saturn in Capricorn (strong influence of Father style of parenting, empirical science) to a conjunction of Jupiter and Pluto in Cancer (Mother, Power, Law).  Just as he was developining his theory about what goes on in these areas in 1985 his progressed Sun was changing signs and was at 29 Gemini-1 Cancer.  That point will bring one’s views before the public, in this case, views having to do with family.)

His theories are highly debated because he did not publish through peer related publishing methods and his ideas are considered non-scientific.  Mostly he defended Fathers whose ex-wives bad mouthed them to the children so that the children would not want to see their Fathers.  What grabbed my attention was the fact that Gardner committed suicide in a really gruesome way.  First he tried to overdose.  When that failed he stabbed himself to death.  This was because he was in pain from a disease called reflex sympathetic dystrophy. Sorry, but that was just more interesting to me because it was so brutal.

Then I was, of course, curious about the stories about how the courts would side with Gardner’s testimony over the pleas of children in custody disputes.  When confronted by the fact that he had set the children up with abusive parents who had then been hurt by their parents he didn’t show any remorse.  Well, that sounds pretty typical especially connected with children and divorce.

The most painful story involved 3 boys in Pennsylvania who were forced to visit their Father by court order.  If they didn’t show up and if they didn’t act happy around their Father the Judge threatened to send their Mother to jail.  That’s not legal and it’s really weird, but, hey, this is divorce.

The oldest boy, Nathan, was so distraught over his screwed up life that he committed suicide when he was 16. The kids were 4,6, and 8 when their parents split.  They grew up and during the year that they were 12, 14, & 16, when they were at the age when kids are supposed to be breaking away from family stuff, the parents and the courts were forcing them to continue to act as if they were 4, 6 & 8.

The astrology is what is grabbing me here because it possibly fits with my astrological theories which connect the planetary cycles with understanding how trauma will unfold in children later on.  It will possibly show how each particular child will react to the trauma and what kind of time frame to look for in order to understand future times when the trauma will resurface.

Nathan Greico was 8 years old when his parents divorced.  Age 8, as I’ve discussed is connected with the first Saturn square in a child’s level of development.  Saturn is related to first stage of maturity, the Father, restriction, depression, social grace (authority and the courts), and depression.  As a person, Nathan was not very good, apparently, at social and physical activities.  I don’t know what that means exactly but he was being treated for ADHD (and I haven’t got a clue what that means except that it shows that he was on drugs).  As I’ve said, I suspect that Ages 7-8 are among the worst for a child to go through parents’ divorce because they represent ages of development that will directly be affected by homelife, tradition, parents and parenting and are often connected with not feeling safe and not being able to handle failure.  In overly simplified terms, Moon is moodiness and feeling picked on.  Saturn is bitterness, guilt, and depression.

Age 8 also figures strongly in another cycle which I wonder doesn’t involve Nathan’s natal chart.  I wonder if he had a conjunction of Sun-Venus.  It would fit too well if he did.  This is because there is a cycle of the Sun and Venus Rx which repeats every 8 years and often you can see this 8 year cycle strongly figured in their charts, hopefully not the traumatized version.

I noticed that when Nathan committed suicide on Feb. 27, 2007 there was a conjunction of Venus 1 Pisces to the Sun 9 Pisces.  The sign of Pisces is often connected with feeling suicidal and like a lost cause so that could be enough of a motive to end it all if things are not going well.  And, as I say, I have no idea what Nathan’s natal chart looks like.  But, Age 8 is the earlier completion of a cycle of these two planets together.  Venus is the sign which rules marriage, harmony, partnerships.  A person who has this planet strongly figured in his chart is thought to become very distressed by any lack of balance in his life because he is extremely sensitive to it.  The Sun adds an element of self-expression of self confidence and wanting to express one’s self creatively and openly.  Often when these planets show up in a negative way, they are also related to suicide.  Sun rules a heightened sense of drama.  Venus represents Love and just doesn’t want tension.  Nathan was upset about everything Venusian.  He had just written about how upset he was over a break-up in his love life and over his parent’s ongoing custody battle and this forced visitation with his Father.  The problems with the Father began when the Mother remarried and the new step-father came in.  The Father’s reaction became subversive and violent.  There is no discussion about Nathan’s feelings about this.  If a Venusian he might just be more upset by people who are fighting rather than wanting to be the dominant male in the family the way other boys might figure in.  It’s also very interesting that he was involved in an argument over brainwashing which could be construed as a Venus type of problem.

So, as theoretical as this is, I suppose it shows another example of what I’m talking about.  Perhaps what to look for in individual children.  And what to avoid. And when.

Article about Nathan Griecohttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/FAMILYCOURTREFORM/message/4183

The Pittsburg paper wrote a really great series about the Greico Divorce and the misuse of Parental Alienation Syndrome as used by the courts in child custody hearings.

http://www.post-gazette.com  http://www.post-gazette.com/custody/parttwo.asp

The surviving brothers talking about how the minute they turn 18 they are out the door.  The older one says that he will bring the younger one with him.  Protective.

Here’s another article about how this theory is sending more children into harms way with abusive people:

Mar. 2, 2011 article from SF Weekly newspaper:  California Family Courts Helping Pedophiles, Batterers Get Child Custody”  by Peter Jamison.

The basic argument, I guess, is that it’s great that parents want to stay in their children’s lives.  But, people who are going through a divorce are really not the healthiest people in the world to be around.

copyright 2011.  All rights reserved, spoiled childrenofdivorce

ABC News Coverage on Parenting Children of Divorce
April 27, 2011, 9:42 pm
Filed under: Astrology stuff, Authority

This is a nice interview about parenting Children of Divorce from ABC News.  Ann Pleshette Murphy interviews psychologist Joanna Ball on a segment that focuses on parenting.  They discuss how to try to understand if a child is upset by his/her parents’ divorce.  Ball tells how to try to understand how children express Depression and Anxiety.  My critical side just wants them to skip that business and  try to understand how children internalize emotional trauma.  For example, they look for problem behaviors or changes of behaviors.  I personally would be more worried about the kid who goes through all that and never shows any change of behavior.  How do you know whether a child is having behavior issues and whether or not the child is just going through a phase?

Ball describes basic behaviors to look for in Depression.  She points out the difference between Depression in Children and in Adults.  Children will tend to become irritable.  They have changes in eating, sleeping, concentrating, and boredom with their usual activities.  According to Ball, children show anxiety by becoming clingy and needing reassurance.  They can become avoidant.

Interviewer Ann Murphy asks Ball to discuss how to deal with the specific problem of a Grandmother who wrote in asking about her grandson.

It’s interesting to note here that the grandparent is asking the question, not the parent.  It’s good to point out that parents are so overwhelmed during divorce that often they can’t get around to really doing much for their kids.  It’s really great when the relatives step in to try to help.

From an astrological point of view this example is really interesting because the divorcing couple has an 8 year old son and they have been split 1 1/2 years.  This is one of the worst times to get a divorce, according to me, if using Astrological Cycles in order to understand children’s development.  That is, of course, if a child is subjected to divorce trauma at this age in such a way that his development is somehow now encouraged.

This child would have just been entering his first square of progressed Secondary Moon and first Saturn square.  These are the two planets that rule the parents and the home life.  They also are major rulers of depression in a chart.

The Secondary Moon square is often related to an internal phase of development which can be associated with moodiness, whining, and feeling picked on.  Moon relates to feelings and the Mother.

Saturn relates to a phase of development which can be associated with the Father, learning rules and limits and discipline, and how to deal in the outside world.  This is a more social, extroverted phase.

It’s interesting that the Grandmother is worrying that the boy isn’t growing out of  what could be understood as Lunar phase.  In other words, he’s continuing to whine a lot and drive everyone nuts.  Instead he appears to be stuck in the moody Moon behavior and starting to express it outwardly through Saturn activities.  He is whining whenever he loses a game (social humiliation, dealing with failure, social grace) or visits his Father (Saturn, literally, also fear, not feeling safe, insecurity, judgements of not living up to expectations).

Ann Murphy starts whining about how horrible it is to deal with children who are whining.  Joanna Bell discusses how it’s important to realize how upsetting it is for children are generally upset by changes of scheduling and routines that come with Divorce.

Saturn can also develop into difficult problems with career, goal setting, acting too tough, no give and take, and ability/inability to bounce back from failure later on in life.  Routines are important lessons for children going through Saturn transits.  Habits are very important for children going through Lunar transits.  A child going through either of these phases will need more reassurance than children going through some of the other transit cycle phases.  They need to feel safe through maintenance of habits and developing a foundation on which to build his own life.

I think that often children at this age will respond much better to divorce if somehow the parents can maintain something of these planets in the family structure.  Stephanie Staal interviewed a man who I seem to remember would have been at the progressed Lunar square phase during his divorce.  He pointed out that his Mother (Moon) made a point of making everyone continue to get together for dinner every night.  Food, Meals, Habits are all Lunar activities that, according to me, would probably be more important to maintain for a child who is going through a trauma at this age.  His basic growth development will be getting what it wants, in other words.

Ball also suggests that parents go together for therapy before subjecting the child to it.  That’s great advice, but, wow, I’ve gone through two examples of talking to people going through divorce who said they’d do anything for their kids.  I suggested having the parents go together for therapy and that was out of the question.  I just got to hear endless crap about what a jerk the other parent is and how they are screwing up the kids.  So, Joanna Ball, I can really appreciate your beautiful calmness.  And thank you for giving what I feel is the right advice.  And good luck getting anyone to follow it.

At any rate, hopefully this boy will receive the help that he needs now so that he will go through succeeding Lunar/Saturn cycle phases easily.  They are often thought of as the most difficult until later on in life.

Copyright 2011.

Suicide Rate of War Veterans, Males Who Grew Up in Divorce, and some Astrology
April 21, 2011, 1:31 am
Filed under: Astrology stuff, Authority, Long Term Fallout, Military, PTSD, Suicide, Vietnam

Vietnam War Veterans have approximately the same level of suicide rate at men who grow up in Divorce.  (Article linked to below).  They are three times as likely as the general population to try to commit suicide.  Suicide rates for Veterans of the current Iraq and Afghanistan wars are expected to be even higher.  I suspect that this might be because so many are from divorced families and are already traumatized from earlier life experiences, but, of course, am making an assumption here.

Divorce.  The only social phenomena in American society that hasn’t been probed, prodded, picked at and tabulated for statistical purposes by the sciences or the media or the government.

Just read about a Veteran from Vietnam who committed suicide.  He was very well liked for his activism on trying to fight his own PTSD.  Yet he couldn’t make it through his pain.  The stories of what he went through in war are really horrifying.  I did notice that he left behind two families so figure he’s from divorce.  I’m not mentioning his name because I know his family is already suffering.  Chiron must take a very significant place in his natal chart, that’s for sure.

Here are some Statistics on recent figures coming out of the current wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.  The article says that more soldiers are killing themselves than are dying abroad :

Statistics obtained by FoxNews.com show the suicide rate of Iraq and Afghanistan veterans in fiscal year 2008 — the most recent data available — was 38.2 deaths per 100,000 individuals, or more than 10 deaths higher than the previous year. In fiscal year 2003, the figure was 23.9 deaths, before reaching a high of 40.3 deaths in 2004.

This article that says that these soldiers tend to kill themselves when they hit their late 20s. Astrology has some interesting explanations for that so I’m going to share it here.

First thing to look at are the soldiers’ birth dates.  I don’t have that information, of course.  But, if the soldiers who are currently suffering from this “epidemic” are all in their late 20s then this means that they were born during the early 1980s.

Because these soldiers seem to hit the wall when they hit  their late 20s it seems that there are two planetary cycles that are triggering this behavior.  These are the Secondary Progressed Lunar Return and the Saturn Return which occur between Ages 27 and 30.  These just happen to be the two planets which often rule Depression as well.  When a person completes a cycle, or even a part of a cycle, the person is coming to grips with the energies of that particular planet in his own chart.

The first Saturn Return, occurs around age 29.   There are actually two major cycles that are ending and beginning at this time.  The Saturn Return occurs roughly around Age 29 and is usually part of a 3 stage conjunction with the natal Saturn placement.  The Progressed Lunar Return occurs about a year before that age around Age 27-28.  The Moon phase might actually be more connected with the problems that occur at this age as it comes up in Suicide charts often.

These two planets  rule opposite ends of the same pole which correspond on the Calendar to the beginnings of Summer and Winter.  In Astrology these poles rule family, parenting, career and social status.  The planets which rule these poles, Moon and Saturn, rule the two parents, the Mother and the Father and also areas of unconditional and conditional love in life.  They are connected with making major commitments in life which want to build a safe foundation on which to live.  Because of this they show an individual’s attitudes towards Tradition.

They may not respond well to therapies such as talk or medication, however, because they relate to action and “doing”.  Emotionally they can be reticent and quiet, have deep insecurities about being needy, tend to want to take control and have a fear of failure.  Pluto is also related to wanting control but he’s interesting.  Pluto will confront the tension.  Lots of therapists have a strong Pluto because they like to see if they can escort people through deep emotional waters.

Trauma is created when things happen to an individual and he loses his sense of control over his environment.  I don’t have enough data to make a conclusion but so far I think I am finding that children who go through their parents’ divorces under the influence of either of these two planets are most likely to suffer trauma from it.  I tend to think it’s best to avoid the ages when children are going through their first squares and oppositions of these planets and wonder if the Veterans who are part of the suicide epidemic also have a higher statistic of having gone through parental divorce.

A person will go through his first Secondary Progressed Lunar Return about a year earlier than the Saturn Return when he is around Age 27-28.  This isn’t a transit of the Moon but is related to progressions which are abstracts points calculated mathematically.  The secondary progressed Moon coincides with what is often known in the Rock Music industry as “The 27 Club.”  These are Rock Stars like Janis Joplin and Kurt Cobain who died young, all at age 27.

The Moon will represent one’s emotional neediness.  This phase often occurs after an individual has gone through a sort of free and easy time after the Jupiter Return at around Age 23, the Neptune and Uranus trines.  All these planets are related to experimentation and freedom and boundlessness and social awareness.  Trines are “easy” aspects so this offers an interesting insight into what many people are going through at this age developmentally.  These transits seem to coincide with what is mentioned in the linked article with soldiers who come home and begin to live wild lifestyles.  They become reckless and take risks.

The Moon Return cycle then comes along and begins to feel a sense of meaninglessness.  This is basically a good thing in a healthy life.  It means that a person will withdraw for a while in order to gain personal understanding of what all this means to him in relation to his own personal development and his own comfort level in  in life.  This phase ought to clear the individual to go through his/her Saturn Return, which is coming up in about a year.  The Saturn Return often asks a person to set a new Goal or Boundary.  The upcoming Saturn Cycle often asks that a new major goal be set.  Marriage, Career, Family.

Many individuals don’t feel anything exceptional or different in this phase, by the way.  It always depends on the individual chart and how it reacts to particular situations.  I’m discussing Suicidal behaviors here.  Many people either have not been through major trauma, or have personalities or upbringings which give them security to fall back on in difficult times, or have very resilient personalities.

Just as the Moon physically reflects the light of the Sun the astrological Moon is related to Reflection, Imagination, and understanding one’s personal needs. A phase of depression is typical and is mostly healthy if allowed to exist as a time of introspection, for planting new seeds that will grow.   This phase could be said to be a time when a person reflects back on what he’s experienced and where he’s from in order to get back in touch with himself; his comfort level in life in order to develop some order out of what he has learned and observed in the Jupiter, Uranus and Neptune cycle transits.  We can call those the party cycle transits or social awakenings or whatever those planets mean to each individual.

Life is supposed to cycle back and forth between all these different energies so we can grow and develop all kinds of understandings.

The Moon rules Long Term Memory so the progressed Lunar Return cycle will probably bring up a lot of memories and a need to reconnect with the past.  The Moon rules the sign of Cancer which is a tenacious sign, clingy at times.  Traumatic memories would be difficult to overcome at this age. So, through the Astrology,  it makes sense that Veterans can be more vulnerable at this age.

(This could also resurface at the second Progressed Lunar Returns which occur around Age 53.  Often Astrologers say that the second Saturn Return which comes around Age 58-59 doesn’t pack as harsh a punch as the first one does.  I don’t know.  It would be interesting to ask the Vietnam Vets at this point if there’s anything to this.)

One can easily become “stuck” in these memories, though. I suspect that Veteran volunteers might be strong Lunar and Saturn personalities to begin with, types who protective of their country.  So this might be a more difficult time for those types as it is.  I might also expect that, in a different vein, Vietnam Veterans who were drafted against their wills have stronger connections with Mars and Pluto (willfulness) and Uranus (friends and groups) problems.  Uranus hit their generation very hard as  they were rejected by their peers and communities when they returned home.  Uranus rules rebellion against social order which is ruled by Saturn.

Both the Moon and Saturn want and need a sense of order and acceptance that is unspoken.  They have a natural drive to contain chaos.  This can be very creative.  During the earlier Jupiter, Uranus and Neptune cycle transits their lives may have become too chaotic.   Once they hit the Moon and Saturn phases they may not be able to turn down the volume so to speak and to adjust to these new demands.  Since Moon and Saturn are related to family, I suspect that strong family caring and guidance is a big need at this time if there is a problem.  But, Moon and Saturn generally can’t ask for the help.  Or they think of themselves as the ones who do for others.  And, as I said, releasing anything emotional is very difficult at this time.

Divorce, as I’ve said before is often associated with Uranus and Pluto and Mars and Venus and maybe also Neptune.  Moon and Saturn are the least welcome inhabitants of a Divorced Home.  Children of Divorce generally grow up acting more as a friend to their parents, or they develop independent personalities (or manipulative ones) in order to survive. Everyone will love them when they return home but they probably aren’t going to have the sense to drop everything in order to help them if they are really in trouble.  Divorced parents tend to see their children more as responsibilities, or friends, or manipulators, than their married counterparts do.   And, of course, when Saturn rolls around one wants to say that one is taking responsibility for one’s fate.  If there are feelings of not being able to handle fears and failures, the individual will not be able to move on in a healthy way.

The Saturn Return is often considered the big heavy.  There are great interpretations out there which explain how this entire 29 year cycle unfolds in an individual’s life which are great to look in to.  Liz Greene wrote the classic Saturn:  A New Look at an Old Devil which is landmark in showing how the “heavy” can be used to positively build one’s life instead of getting depressed by it.  Saturn rules discipline, structure and restriction.  He’s the guy who makes the rules.  Where the Moon represents the Mother who loves and forgives all, Saturn rules the traditional role of the Father who teaches tough decision making and personal responsibility. (These days the interpretations of these planets are much looser and often the Mother is allowed to be the Saturn type and the Father the Lunar type.)

This can be a tough time for many people because often it will bring a difficult decision that has to be made.  One’s maturity is tested as one has to cut off away from a difficult situation and live with the consequences.    Saturn is emotionally cold aspect related to business and social status so it’s easy to see it’s role in Suicide where an individual might feel that he is ending a losing battle.  That’s where Astrology becomes such a positive influence because it recognizes that these are all just phases of life that blend into other phases.  Nothing is permanent, just a learning experience and a challenge.

In its negative form Saturn can instill insecurities. One is aware of his status and accomplishments and compares him self to others.  He may feel that he doesn’t stand up to the rest.  Saturn also rules guilt.  It rules the idea of karma and that what one puts out one receives back.  Saturn doesn’t express his emotions easily so if a person is struggling with feelings at this time he might feel more lonely.  Saturn doesn’t ask for help.  Often the problems that he faces are solved by allowing time to pass.

Saturn likes to build a solid foundation that won’t fall apart.  At any rate, Saturn likes things to follow in rational orders. These are the things that a healthy person grapples with at this age.  Saturn feels good about himself if he can accomplish something.  So someone who is dealing with PTSD might be extra hard on himself for doing what he thinks he ought to be doing.  Saturn can be a harsh judge so it’s necessary to remind these folks to soften their serious sides.

To repeat, the Moon is related to Reflection, Mood and Interior thinking.  This Return Phase is a very important emotional step to pass through before the Saturn Return as it helps a person to clear out his interior problems before trying to move on to the exterior Saturnian problems.  Saturn represents Achievement and Maturity.   It  represents feelings of guilt, insecurities.  Both are connected with Depression.  They are also connected with family, tradition, government.  There are control issues with these two planets which can actually lead to compensating through reckless behavior and super macho feelings. There’s a tough Gal/Guy to both of these planets when they are on the defensive — and they are on the defensive a whole lot of the time.

What I’m curious about regarding divorce, is whether or not there is a high percentage of suicides that come from divorced families.  It is generally known, I believe, that a person who has suffered one trauma will likely be weaker in dealing with a second trauma or third, down the line.  Whether a person thinks of his parents’ divorce as a traumatic experience I leave to each individual to assess.  I know that this is considered “the pity party” by society which I find totally disgusting but what do I know.

The Secondary Progressed Lunar Return and Saturn cycles have quarter and half partial cycles which come across very clearly in child development.  These come through in child development studies often as big markers in maturity.

The first squares occur roughly between the Ages of 6 and 8 years old.  Squares are difficult because, very simply put, they present “challenges.”

The first oppositions occur roughly between Ages 12.5 and 14 years old. Oppositions are considered difficult because, simply put, they present “oppositions” “need for balances” “sense of not being enough.”

From what I’ve noticed in my research these are extremely difficult ages for children to go through the split of a family because these are the ages when they are partially internalizing what family is, or at least what the traditional role of family is.  And what I’m looking for is if the later parts of these phases will bring back the feelings of repressed trauma that didn’t heal after the first event.  I would then be curious to know if these Veterans had not only gone through divorce, but had gone through it at these particular stages.  Don’t really have any ability to conduct that research.

So, I probably haven’t explained this clearly.  I wish to just put my two cents out there to anyone who might be suffering at this age to realize that you need to let this phase pass.  You need to admit that you don’t feel safe.  You need to respect that you have a need for which there is no real help.  And you need to take care of yourself really well in a practical sense.  Eat right, exercise, sleep, smile, help the old lady walk across the street.  Let this pass through you.  There won’t be a lot of major cycles for a while after this one.  There’s a new Cycle related to the Sun coming up at age 33.  The Sun is related to self expression and vitality so it’s a lot to look forward to.  This is followed by a Nodal Return cycle at around Age 36-37 when you come back into contact with a sense of a new life purpose.

Oh, and it’s also good that both Moon and Saturn are strongly connected with humor.  Moon is the zany style of humor and self-effacing humor, and Saturn is related to Dry Sense of Humor.  They aren’t just morbid, dark energies.  Again, I’m talking about them in relation to these Veterans who I hope will find different solutions for their lives.

copyright 2011 all rights reserved

Bad Children of Divorce – Rielle Hunter

Rielle Hunter, or the woman who currently goes by the name of, is a real piece of work.  Sad to say, she is also a Child of Divorce.

I’m not saying that this woman’s behavior is in any way typical of a Child of Divorce.  In most cases, I think that this mentality isn’t normal for Children of Divorce and perhaps this is because the divorce came too late in Rielle’s childhood.  Her parents divorced when she was 17 and was recently traumatized by her Father’s awful antics.  Rielle’s Father was a Lawyer who specialized in Insurance.  Her parents bred horses in Florida and her Father became involved in a Fraud scheme in which horses were electrocuted to collect the insurance.  At around the time of the divorce, Rielle was a rider and one of her Father’s buds killed her horse. One sees the shattering of her personality all over her life history.  Wikipedia lists about 5 or 6 names which she has gone by in her life.  I’ve discussed before a few times how there seems to be a pattern where Children of Divorce seem to change their names (for whatever reason, I’m assuming that loss of family = need to break free through disposal of name associated with, but haven’t got a clue).

Can’t tell if Rielle went to college.  If she did, her tenure was short.  Probably wouldn’t have been able to concentrate very well I imagine.  She did move to New York and became a leader influence on the Generation X crowd.  She did drugs.  She had lots of sex.  Her wildness impressed lots of writers and she became sort of a Muse for a couple of different famous writers.  Her boyfriend, writer Jay McInerney,  created a fictional character based on her in a novel called Story of My Life which is said to describe how her behavior is linked to her Father’s treatment of her.  Another writer, Bret Easton Ellis, included a character based on her in his books American Psycho and Glamorama.

Wikipedia lists about six or seven names that she has gone by in her 42 or 43 years of life.

Rielle was married to a lawyer at some point.  She has worked as an actress and a video producer.  And that’s how she met Presidential Candidate John Edwards and became pregnant with his child while he was campaigning for President in 2007.  Right around this time Edwards had discovered that his wife Elizabeth’s Breast Cancer had metastasized and was considered untreatable.

Rielle gave an interview a few months ago to a tabloid and her attitude about her relationship with Edwards was appalling.  Even with the knowledge that his wife Elizabeth was suffering from late stage Breast Cancer, Hunter claimed that she had nothing to do with the break up of their marriage.  This is that weird little statement that I grew up with having to hear.  I called it the Blame Game.  My Step-Mother didn’t break up my parents’ marriage.  It was already waiting for someone like her to come along.

Of course, only a certain type of person can play the blame game.  People with a conscience won’t.  But Divorce is not about getting along with other people.  It’s about get away from them.  Isn’t it interesting how that often that creates a War Zone?

With his estranged wife Elizabeth, John Edwards has had 4 children.  The oldest son died prematurely in a car accident, a very sorrowful experience. The Edwards’ oldest daughter, Cate, is 28 years old and has an established life outside of the home.  The two youngest still live at home, Emma Claire and Jack.

Edwards now has a 2 year old daughter, Frances, with Rielle Hunter, who apparently has turned into her Father.

So, I guess this brings up a couple of questions for me.  First of all, how difficult is it to separate from bad experiences that have happened to you in childhood?  And what are the effects of a divorce on a 17 year old?  I suspect that the general idea is that the kid is already grown and the parenting completely stops.  If anything, the child becomes a substitute spouse who takes on a lot of the household duties and listens to all the problems. A lot of times it seems that everyone lives in the same house together but just goes about their business with the understanding that everyone is in too much pain.

There are no Planetary Return transits for most people (except the Sun-Venus conjunction kids) between the ages of about 14 and 18.9 years old.  It’s as if we are allowed to float on our own for an extended period of time to see how we can deal with life.  At Age 17 we will have completed a Saturn opposition to our natal Saturn.  Saturn represents the Father in the chart, and how we deal with our reputation and our public standing and career status.  Saturn is authoritarian and on an emotional level is cold and can be ruthless and selfish.  Oppositions show literally “opposition” and balance and separation.  We are pulling away from our families in order to build our own personalities.  It takes a certain level of ruthlessness in order to do that.  Saturn rules Boundaries and Barriers and deep Fears and Insecurities.  We use it to say “No” to people and anyone who has trouble saying “No” to people knows how difficult that is for most people to do.  There’s a wisdom in using that power for good.  When it’s used easily and without feeling it becomes a very negative personality trait that can’t interact well with others.  Blame and Guilt are also associated with Saturn.  Saturn is related to the Maturation process and timing.  It represents caution, it understands that slow and steady wins the race.  But, older kids will often have to shift almost instantly from innocence of childhood and of being protected to understanding that their parents can be evil as they observe from their standpoint of being almost adult.  They will have a long memory at this point of what it’s like to be part of a family (for good or bad).

It’s interesting to see how a deep trauma that is experienced at this age can manifest later in life.  Rielle had her Horse taken away from her in return for her Father’s bad behavior.  Once she moved to New York and started imploding in her social life her parents were probably too self involved with their own problems to deal with her.   One can only imagine what her parents’ divorce must have been like.  Now she has turned around and destroyed Elizabeth Edwards’ and her childrens’ lives.

Saying No To Divorced Parents
June 23, 2010, 10:38 pm
Filed under: Astrology stuff, Authority

Along with all the “why is my step-daughter such a manipulative bitch” searches in the WordPress stats section of the blog there was a really interesting search logged in today or yesterday.

Someone wanted to know what age is good for saying “No” to Split parents.  I suspect that many Children of Divorce struggle with this.  Double sets of parents, even when the parents are good and kind and knowing and nice, is just too much to deal with except for maybe a few uber extroverted types.  So, I think this is a great thing to ponder. And, as with all things having to do with divorce, the answers are going to change drastically according to individual circumstances.   This blog doesn’t provide advice, but I just want to make this problem more public.  It looks like someone out there with a real problem is looking for a real answer.  I suspect that both of the divorced parents will have conflicting ideas about what a child can and can’t do.  The idea of all the chit chat that has to go on, the committee parenting, just makes me ill.  Maybe, though, it’s better for the child because it brings up real discussion and argument about what is really best.  On the one hand, it’s very neurotic and on the other hand it could lead to some sort of enlightened childhood.  Mostly I just wonder if there is a real distinct point at which children in divorce really do need to decide to tell their parents that they can’t handle the stuff anymore.  There might be more boundary setting.  In Astrology, Boundary setting is ruled by the planet Saturn.  Saturn is also related to depression and fears and most of the really difficult emotional stunting that goes on due to bad parenting (Saturn rules Fathers and Discipline).  So this is a very difficult topic to handle.  It has been determined by experts that absentee Fathers are one of the biggest problems for kids who are growing up.  Literally, kids in Divorce often grow up without the “No” factor existing in their lives in a healthy way.

Saturn also rules Guilt.  We all know about the guilt that Divorced parents feel.  But, we never discuss the extreme levels of guilt that divorced kids feel.

In the Astrological Return Cycle phases kids would probably go through a few different types of saying “No” phases according to how they react to their parents’ divorces.  I’ve been theorizing that they react to their parents’ divorces most strongly according to what age they were at when the divorce first occurred.  They will forever see themselves as this age in a way because this was how they behaved back in the days when they had a family.  Often, parents and siblings impressions of them will freeze at this age as well because this is also when they stopped interacting with each other.

The first biggee Return Cycle I can think of connected with saying “No” is going to be the Mars Return type of “No.”  This is related to the Terrible Two’s and is based on impulse.  Kids have 9 Mars Returns by the time they reach Age 18 when they are officially considered adults.

There are other phases which might be related to saying “No.”  These are the Saturn phases.  The first is a square aspect (square means challenges) which happens around Age 7 or 8.  Children will want to make some decisions for themselves I suppose.  The second is the first Saturn opposition.  This occurs between Age 14.  The Opposition aspect is a way of relating to others by opposing them.  Saturn rules the Father and Authority figures.  These phases are related to a child’s development in using his own Authority which come to a complete rotation at around Age 29.   Saturn also rules Guilt, Bitterness, Resentment, Burdens, and Exhaustion.  So people at this age who are heavily influenced by their parents’ divorce in a Saturnian way will probably have to deal with saying No to their parents during these phases.  Strong Saturn types generally have less of a problem with saying No to other people.  Often they will, instead, struggle with saying “Yes.”  This is due to insecurities and fears.  Saturn literally rules Boundaries and Borders and Walls.

Age 8 and Age 16 are interesting Ages for children who struggle with learning how to say “No” to their parents.  Children who have a natal conjunction of Sun to Venus will experience a big return at these times.  These people seem to follow interesting 8 year cycles during their entire lives.  Venus is the ruler of relationships so these people will struggle especially in early life with feeling like they have to learn how to put up boundaries and borders with other people in order to not be used.  Venus types will often struggle to make up their mind about how much they ought to be relating to others.  Later on in life they often are very clever with politics because they will know more about how to relate to others.  The Sweet 16 Birthday is really significant for a girl.  It describes the Venusian type of personality very well.  A girl begins to date and saying “No” becomes a big part of her relationship awareness.  Or, at least it used to.

Interesting that kids begin to drive at this Age.  That seems to exist outside of anything astrological.

There are no new major planetary Return cycles of phases of cycles between the Saturn Opposition and the first Nodal Return which occurs a little before Age 19.  The kids are I suppose allowed to take off on their own whims and see how things go for them.  They still have to deal with transits, progressions and other problems.

Advice Columnist Tells Dad’s Girlfriend Where to Stick It
July 14, 2008, 1:40 am
Filed under: Authority, links to articles, separate households, Stepfamilies

The Sunday Paper today carries a column written by Carolyn Hax titled: “Dad worries merging homes will upset kids.” The Girlfriend wants to merge the teenage kids into one house and the Dad is concerned his kids will hate him forever if he does this. The Girlfriend figures it will all just work out and doesn’t show any concern for the kids’ situation. There’s nothing unusual about this except that Hax actually rips into her for being a selfish jerk. This is certainly a refreshing attitude which I don’t remember seeing before.  Thank you Carolyn Hax!

Link to the article: http://www.mercurynews.com/style/ci_9868244

Here’s the column:

DEAR CAROLYN: I am almost 50 and have been dating by all accounts (especially mine) one of the finest men on the planet for three years. Our relationship is to the point that we do virtually all things together, maintain a mutual calendar, have daily interaction via phone and face to face, kid celebrations, family events, etc.We each have three high school/college-age kids. For the most part we all get along. He’s a churchgoing Catholic, very successful, thrifty, a doormat for his kids and an over-thinker. I am feeling it is time to merge our lives, as “dating” at this point is quite costly in time and in maintaining two expensive households, while living essentially the same life. He says his kids will not react positively to this “merger” and he will “lose” them.

While I respect there will be a learning curve for all of us, if he really can’t begin to plan on our life together, I am ready to move on. Can you glean any considerations to manage this situation? We love and enjoy one another tremendously, are loyal, compassionate confidants . . . but we have reached a stalemate, and I am growing restless with the situation and skeptical about my life’s path being decided by his children’s contrivances.


DEAR S.G.: If you used the word “contrivance” to describe my desire not to have my world upended when I’m, what, three years from leaving the house? Not even that? Then I’d be angry at my dad for marrying you, too.

Home is a very, very big deal. You may be the adults of these homes, you and your boyfriend. You may be in a position to exercise your will over the will of your children. You may have legitimate reservations about kids who have this much say over their father’s life.But as one of the two adults here, you also have the ability, I hope, both to take the long view and to delay gratification.

You and this man have the rest of your lives to be together, but these kids have just a few years left in the nest. Why should at least three kids have to give up their home – bedrooms, hangouts, neighborhood, touchstones – and the others have to shuffle theirs, to tackle a “learning curve” they don’t need to tackle? To accommodate a situation where, so far, they get along “for the most part”?

I don’t advocate coddling children. When change is necessary for the greater good, then the kids will have to adjust.

But this is change for your good. And these are kids who have already been through one major nest-upending. Maybe your over-thinking doormat is overestimating your patience, or underestimating his kids. But maybe you’re underestimating the goodwill you could demonstrate by holding off on the merger till it displaces the fewest people possible – and by not resenting the kids for it. I wonder what effect it would have on the stalemate if you were to propose this: You and he plan on merging your lives officially when the nests empty out on their own.

Contact Carolyn Hax at tellme@washpost.com.